“I Wish We Had Known This Earlier!” Dependent Views: Revit

“I wish we had known this earlier!” Those were the words the design team uttered when I showed them the “Apply Dependent views” tool as part of a Revit Consulting engagement here at Ideate, Inc. The team did not know the tool existed. It can be a real time-saver!

If you are modeling a ten story building in Revit and for plotting purposes, you have to break the views up into multiple parts, you right click on a view and Click: “Duplicate as a Dependent.” You have to do that for every single floor plan, then there are sections and elevations. If you are breaking the view up into four parts… that's right, clicking 4x10=40 times. Then, if the layout, etc. changes, that’s a whole other story!

With the ‘Apply Dependent Views’ tool you can create a set of dependent views for one view and then very easily populate it across other views. See screenshots below:

 

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Shruti Harve,
LEED AP, AEC Solutions Application Specialist
Shruti holds a Master of Science degree in Architectural Computing from University of Strathclyde, United Kingdom and is LEED accredited. Her experience includes working in Architecture and Construction firms in India and the United Kingdom as well as Structural Engineering firms in the Bay Area providing design, 3D modeling and drafting services. At Ideate, Shruti provides training and support for Revit Architecture, Revit Structure, 3ds Max, Ecotect and AutoCAD Architecture.

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Data What? Using Data Extractions to create a Topo Surface in Revit Architecture

On  a recent tech support day at Ideate, a case was submitted requesting help with creating a topo surface in Revit Architecture from points in an AutoCAD drawing file. There’s no direct way to do this, but there is a very useful AutoCAD tool called Data Extraction that produces a file that Revit can use to create a topo surface.

In Revit Architecture, there are two general methods for creating a topo surface. From the Massing and Site tab’s Toposurface command, users are able to Select Import Instance, or Specify Points File. The import instance is probably the easiest way to generate a topo surface from an AutoCAD drawing, however the drawing must include contour lines that identify elevations on the desired surface. If your file does not include contour lines, they need to be generated or drafted manually, which is not the easiest task in plain AutoCAD. On the other hand, if you have a point file (.CSV or .TXT) that contains point data in X,Y,Z format, option two will work for you. 

NOTE: You can create points manually in Revit, but who wants to click on each point and assign values one by one?

In our customer’s case, their AutoCAD file contained plain AutoCAD point objects (nodes with X, Y, Z coordinates) and nothing else. At this point, they had a couple of options; generate contours manually, then link the file in Revit, or create a point file from the object data and use that instead.

If only there were a way to extract object data automatically in AutoCAD...

The AutoCAD Data Extraction tool allows you to select drawing objects and generate a CSV or TXT file containing object data automatically. In  a series of dialog boxes, Objects, Properties, and File Formats are selected, then the application does the rest for you. Once it’s done, you have a point file that Revit Architecture can use to generate the topo surface.

As easy as that sounds, there are some things to consider to avoid potential errors.

1. The AutoCAD drawing must be in Decimal format before you extract the object data. Revit Architecture will only process points that are in Decimal Feet, Decimal Inches, Meters, Centimeters or Millimeters. If the file is in a different unit of measure, you may end up with fractions in your point file, which will produce an error in Revit.
2. The Point File should only have point information in it. Any extra columns or rows should be removed. Do not include any extra information like column headings or point numbers in the file. Since those are not specifically point related, Revit will indicate and incompatible data format when it sees those values. Extra columns and rows can be deleted by the user in Excel or Access once the file has been produced.
3. Revit must be in a 3D view  for the topo surface to appear. This may be common sense to the frequent Revit users out there, but I’m an AutoCAD/Civil 3D guy so that was news to me. Once I finally read the warning bubble (third time’s a charm) the surface showed up as expected.
4. Only Revit Architecture has Massing and Site tools. The functionality does not exist in Revit MEP and Revit Structure.
5. With that said, here’s how it works in the applications, starting with points in an AutoCAD file, ending up with a Topo Surface in Revit Architecture.

AutoCAD 2012 File with AutoCAD (452) Points

Start the Data Extraction command to create a new Data Extraction (.DXE) file

Select Objects or the Entire drawing for the Data Source

Verify the Object type from the Data Source

 Use the Geometry option to specify only X, Y, and Z properties from the points

 Clear any extra columns, and verify Decimal format for the data (drawing Units should be set to Decimal prior to starting the Data Extraction process)

Output .CSV or .TXT file (.MDB for large datasets and database functionality)

Click Finish to complete the process

Once the .DXE and .CSV files are generated, open the .CSV in Excel to verify the exported data. By default, the row identifying the column headings for Position X, Y, and Z are included in the .CSV file. Delete the row since it is not necessary for creating the topo surface in Revit and re-save the file.

In the Revit Architecture file, start the Toposurface command and use the Create from Import --> Specify Points File option

Select the .CSV file created from the Data Extraction and click Open, then verify the Unit format of the point file (to match the unit format of the original AutoCAD drawing) and click OK

 The infamous warning... 

Click the Green Check to complete the Toposurface process and switch to a 3D view (as the warning says) to view the completed Toposurface in your Revit file

If you’re in a situation where you need to create a point file containing  AutoCAD object data, consider the Data Extraction command in AutoCAD.

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Matt Miyamoto, P.E.
Infrastructure Solutions Application Specialist
Matt is a licensed Civil Engineer in the state of Hawaii. Matt obtained a BS in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Hawaii at Manoa, and has 7 years of private sector design experience which he applies in his role as an application specialist with Ideate, Inc. His project experience includes residential and commercial site development, private and public sewer, water and drainage systems, harbors improvements, and roadway improvements. While in Hawaii, Matt was involved in multidisciplinary projects for City and County agencies, State Departments, the Army COE and private developers. @MattM_PE

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AutoCAD Plotting – What Happened to the Colors?

As the Support Dispatcher at Ideate Inc. I have seen a surge of cases that center around printing in AutoCAD. In particular we have customers who are unable to print because their .CTB files are missing. Usually this has been caused by the drawing being set to use .STB files for printing instead of .CTBs. Here are the differences between the two and the particulars of switching a drawing from one type to the other.

CTB Plotting

Most users are familiar with .CTB files, or ‘color-dependent plot style tables’. These files process the drawing when printing and assign lineweights and other plot settings to printouts based on the color of the objects, which can have properties that reference the object properties.

STB Plotting

In 2000 Autodesk added an alternative print style that used .STB files called ‘named plot styles’. In this style the plot settings are assigned to a name and that name is applied to layers or specific objects. Some of these settings can be set to ‘By Object’. These will then look to the object properties, which is often set to ‘By Layer’. In this setup the colors in the drawing only affect the default color the object prints as when ‘By Object’ is specified for color in the named style.

Since the named styles can be applied to specific objects, the way that an object looks in the drawing may not reflect how it looks when printed. This requires test plotting or plot previews to catch problems with drawing appearance.

Starting New Drawings

There are two versions of each template shipped with the program, each associated with a different plot style. When creating new drawings, be sure to use a template that reflects the style that you want to use. The process of switching styles can become complicated in a drawing file that contains a lot of objects. We see this in support when users don’t notice the discrepancy until they try to print after making significant progress in a drawing.

Converting Colors to Named Styles

There are two steps to converting a drawing from .CTB to .STB

1. CONVERTCTB
   AutoCAD needs a .STB file to use to convert the plot settings when the drawing is converted. This .STB file must have been converted from a .CTB file, preferably the main one used in the drawing that is to be converted. This associates a color mapping to the .STB file. This conversion process is independent of the drawing that is open, converting all the colors in the CTB and consolidating them into unique styles
   (Note that a .STB file that has color mapping will not be fully editable as long as the mapping remains. It can be removed in the editor, but it will then no longer be able to convert files.)
2. CONVERTPSTYLES
   When converting a drawing, styles are applied to the layers based on their color automatically. For objects that have a color different than ‘By Layer’ the named style for that color is applied directly to the object. Objects in a converted drawing retain all of their properties.

Converting Named Styles to Colors

There is no actual conversion applied to a drawing when it is changed from .STB to .CTB. The drawing will not remember any of the named style settings. Any object that was set to a specific named style will revert to printing based on the color property. These objects will print differently and it can be difficult get the drawing to print the same as before the conversion. As a result it is recommended that these objects be identified before the drawing is converted and their color changed to match the .CTB file that will be used after the drawing is converted.

Sharing Drawings

As always, it is best practice to include the file(s) you use to plot whenever you send out a drawing. When receiving these files, use the STYLESMANAGER command to copy them into your plot style folder.

Related Command List

STYLESMANAGER – Opens the folder location of the .CTB and .STB files which should also include a link to the creation wizard. Plot tables can be edited by opening the file.

PSTYLEMODE – reports which style the current drawing is using. (1=.CTB, 0=.STB)

CONVERTCTB – converts a .CTB plot file into an .STB plot file. It is not possible to convert a .STB into a .CTB

CONVERTPSTYLES – converts the current drawing between .CTB and .STB.

PLOTSTYLE – controls the style that is applied to new objects in .STB style drawings. In most cases it is recommended that this be set to ‘By Layer’ (CPLOTSTYLE is the command prompt version.)

DEFLPLSTYLE – controls the plot style that is applied to existing layers in a pre-2000 .dwg or for ‘Layer 0’ when not using a template. (1=.CTB, 0=.STB)

DEFPLSTYLE – controls the plot style that is applied to existing objects in a pre-2000 .dwg or when not using a template. (1=.CTB, 0=.STB)

PSTYLEPOLICY – controls the plots style that is applied to existing objects in a pre-2000 .dwg or when not using a template. (1=.CTB, 0=.STB)

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Jesika DiGregorio
Support Intern
Jesika received her Bachelor of Architecture from the University of Oregon in Eugene, Oregon where she worked on construction of a student-designed structure. Her work experience includes Junior Designer at an award-winning firm specializing in architecture and land planning, and Intern Architect at a firm that provides services in planning, design, construction documents and construction administration for projects of all sizes. Jesika provides online and phone technical support to Ideate clients from the Ideate Authorized Training Center in Portland, Oregon.

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